Each time that Beeper Mini goes ‘down’ or is made to be unreliable due to interference by Apple, Beeper’s credibility takes a hit. It’s unsustainable. As much as we want to fight for what we believe is a fantastic product that really should exist, the truth is that we can’t win a cat-and-mouse game with the largest company on earth.

With our latest software release, we believe we’ve created something that Apple can tolerate existing. We do not have any current plans to respond if this solution is knocked offline. The iMessage connection software that powers Beeper Mini and Beeper Cloud is now 100% open source (github.com/beeper/imessage). Anyone who wants can use it or continue development.

In the new year, we’re shifting focus back to our long-term goal of building the best chat app on earth.


Beeper Mini is beautiful, fast and fun. Our main goal with the app is to upgrade chats between iPhone and Android users from unencrypted green bubble SMS to encrypted, fully featured blue bubble chats. This is a huge win for both iPhone and Android users in the US, where texting via SMS is the default form of chat. The only people on the ‘other’ side of this debate seem to be Apple and some ardent online supporters.

Apple and other commentators have made a number of claims about Beeper Mini, including a public statement to The Verge. These claims are serious, but flawed.

  • “These techniques posed significant risks to user security and privacy, including the potential for metadata exposure”

    • It’s straightforward to verify that Beeper Mini is not a malicious app designed to steal your messages and accounts, or harvest your data. If you want, you can inspect the code of our core open source iMessage bridge (which is embedded inside Beeper Mini), and self-host it yourself to prove that it only connects to Apple servers. So let’s put to rest the idea that Beeper Mini is inherently insecure. If Apple wants to accuse us of being insecure, they need to back that up with hard evidence. We’re eager to fix any security issues reported by Apple or anyone else.

    • The truth is that Beeper Mini upgrades insecure chats between iPhone and Android contacts and makes them secure with end-to-end encryption. By blocking Beeper Mini, Apple is actively harming their own iPhone customers by forcing them to fall back to insecure SMS chats. We believe that, for this reason alone, their actions are morally indefensible.

  • “…exploit fake credentials in order to gain access to iMessage”

    • As we shared in our recent blog post, Beeper uses real registration data from real Macs and iPhones. These credentials are being used by real people, with real Apple accounts, to send real iMessages. Many Beeper Mini users tell us that they are Apple customers with Macbooks or iPads, etc, but choose to use an Android smartphone. All they want to do is continue their iMessage chats on their phone. Honestly, we don’t understand this claim at all.

  • “…enabling unwanted messages, spam, and phishing attacks”

    • Uh, isn’t that what SMS is for? 😂 With iMessage, Apple even has the ability to block spammers and scammers at the network layer. It’s much easier for them to block iMessage spam than SMS spam, which can only be blocked client-side. We don’t really understand this argument at all.

    • Keep in mind that from an iPhone user’s perspective, there is no way to tell if it’s a new iMessage or a new SMS message in the inbox. You can’t tell that they are different until you open the chat.

  • “Apple’s going to support RCS next year, just wait for that!”

    • On Nov 16, Apple sent a 3 sentence statement to 9to5Mac saying that they are planning to support RCS. This would be great! Beeper has supported RCS since August. We’d immediately switch to using this for iPhone ↔ Android chats. Very few hard facts are available. It’s not clear if Apple’s RCS will support the same encryption protocol as Google’s RCS.

    • Just one year ago, Tim Cook had this to say about RCS: “I don’t hear our users asking that we put a lot of energy in on that at this point. […] Buy your mom an iPhone.”

    • Long story short, I will believe it when I see it. Apple has a long history of claiming they will support an open standard, then failing to add support. In 2010, Steve Jobs promised that Apple ‘would make FaceTime an open industry standard’. That never happened. More recently, in 2021, Apple promised to open their Find My network to competitors like Tile. Instead, they’ve penalized Tile by additional warnings in front of their app.

    • Beeper Mini has a working solution to this problem today. Why should iPhone customers and Android users have to wait for Apple to adopt RCS? What if their implementation is delayed? What if they cancel it?

  • “Apple is within their rights to run iMessage how they see fit”

    • This might be true if Apple was a small company. But they aren’t. They control more than 50% of the US smartphone market, and lock customers into using Apple’s official app for texting (which, in the US, sadly, is the default way people communicate). Large companies that dominate their industry must follow a different set of rules that govern fair competition, harm to consumers and barriers to innovation. We are not experts in antitrust law, but Apple’s actions have already caught the attention of US Congress and the Department of Justice.

  • “But you guys are making money off Apple’s servers!”

    • We stopped charging for Beeper Mini on Dec 11, and Beeper Cloud has always been free to use. Additionally, Beeper Mini users chat with paying Apple customers on the other side of the conversation! If Apple proposed some way for us to reimburse them for the (minuscule) infrastructure costs of enabling paying iPhone customers to text Android users, we’d be happy to comply with that.

    • Our preference is to charge for our app because it allows us to align our interests with those of our customers, compared with ‘free’ apps that do questionable things with user data to make money.

At this stage, Apple’s actions to block Beeper Mini look increasingly hard for Apple to defend. The only potential reason Apple has left is that they might make less money selling iPhones if iMessage were available on Android. Some Apple folks have admitted that ‘iMessage on Android would simply serve to remove an obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones’. Our hope is that Apple has more faith in their overall product offering than to think that people buy iPhones just to get a blue bubble.

Eric Migicovsky
Beeper CEO


Discover more from Beeper Blog

Subscribe to get the latest posts to your email.


119 responses to “Beeper – Moving Forward”

  1. Jessica Schneck Avatar
    Jessica Schneck

    Eric and team, I’m sorry you’ve taken such heat with this! I know you’re not new to the game, but I want to let you know there’s a whole slew of people behind you.
    THANK YOU for everything you’re trying to do with Beeper.

    Like

    1. third: "Beedell" first: "Roke" Avatar
      third: “Beedell” first: “Roke”

      Likewise. The mere fact that it is based upon Matrix is barely believable.

      Like

    2. Seb Avatar
      Seb

      I’m just annoyed this whole ordeal ruined a perfectly great app I was willing to pay for, I didn’t need iMessage at all. What a waste.

      Like

      1. Alfred H Avatar
        Alfred H

        What do you mean? Beeper Cloud works perfectly except iMessage. If you don’t need iMessage then everything should be fine because everything else works great

        Like

      2. Seb Avatar
        Seb

        Yeah I’m sure it does, but I’ve lost any confidence that this product will survive now after sinking money and time into this project that was doomed from the start. I also lost confidence in their claims of my messages being secure with them, since they’re now employing teen hackers.

        Luckily Automatic, an actual reputable company has a pretty good universal messenger.

        Like

      3. colinnwn Avatar
        colinnwn

        The ‘teen hacker’ is the person who reverse engineered the iMessage registration protocol for them, that was the foundation of secure iMessage access.

        He is only a ‘hacker’ in the most casual and positive definition.

        The iMessage access isn’t a hack, and is a secure implementation, as opposed to other companies methods and how Apple sends SMS to non iPhone group chats.

        Like

      4. Seb Avatar
        Seb

        The point is: I don’t trust this company. And yes, it is a hack.

        Like

      5. colinnwn Avatar
        colinnwn

        If this is a hack, Apple is also a hack for sending to SMS through their otherwise secure app, and for not protecting the security of its users because the security of both the sender and recipient is not respected when iMessage sends to SMS.

        Like

      6. Seb Avatar
        Seb

        What are you on about, Apple is just sending an SMS over the network that is opening up their SMS ability to anyone who wants to use it in the intended way.

        Like

      7. colinnwn Avatar
        colinnwn

        And so did Beeper to Apple. Apple didn’t do enough validation that only their hardware was sending messages if that was their intention. They tried to obfuscate their infrastructure authentication to hide access and that never works out good.

        Of course for the time being Apple had the right to improve their methods. But the DOJ and FTC is now interested and the EU almost forced it but relented with RCS access in the future. So regulators agree that there is a case that Apple’s societal responsibilities have shifted, just like many large companies before them.

        Like

      8. Seb Avatar
        Seb

        I find the amount of energy you spend here amusing.

        Like

      9. colinnwn Avatar
        colinnwn

        And yet you bothered to reply again. I find all of the Apple fanboi’s that come to post on Beeper’s blog amusing. Every situation has two sides. But why bother to advocate for the perceived slight to one of the biggest companies in the world in value, by a tiny company trying to deliver a novel service?

        Like

      10. Seb Avatar
        Seb

        You didn’t need to add more after “yet you bothered to reply again”, yet you did.

        Like

      11. colinnwn Avatar
        colinnwn

        For someone concerned about my use of energy, I find your continuing efforts to bait me… A unique curiosity.

        Like

      12. Seb Avatar
        Seb

        Just waiting for you to get the last word.

        Like

  2. Ryan Simon Avatar
    Ryan Simon

    Really sucks to see Apple stooping this low, but no surprises there. Keep fighting the good fight!

    Like

    1. Norman Framed Avatar
      Norman Framed

      How is it stooping low? I used to reverse engineer existing technology (the way the Beeper team has done with iMessage) when I was in college for learning purposes, but I never once believed that I was entitled to create a product with it. In fact, they used to ban sale of products from China which were based on reverse engineering/cloning. If they truly believe in “freedom”, why not work with the government to mandate encrypted RCS support on all phones? And make sure the encryption extensions aren’t proprietary as they are now (the main reason why Apple is waiting): https://docs.jibemobile.com

      Like

      1. Scars Avatar
        Scars

        Because RCS is an insecure, incomplete, hodgepodge of a standard. It will take years to fix, assuming it’s even fixable. Gluing security on as an afterthought rarely works.

        Governments mandating it would be awful.

        Like

      2. Norman Framed Avatar
        Norman Framed

        It’s really the only way though. No company wants to pay for the R&D costs for everyone else unless there’s something to gain from it. That’s the reality of capitalism.

        Like

      3. Mercury Avatar
        Mercury

        LMAO is that Apple’s fault?

        Like

  3. Sarah Lewis Avatar
    Sarah Lewis

    Thanks for laying out the claims in a systematic way and addressing them. I’ve been peripherally aware of the issues but not personally invested, and I appreciate the clarity. Given Apple’s size and market share (and the EU’s demonstrated interest in equitable practices), I imagine this will eventually get addressed in regulatory bodies, but it would be great for their customers if Apple would stop blocking their preferences before being forced to.

    Like

    1. itskai Avatar
      itskai

      It’s incredibly biased and one-sided explanation.

      Like

      1. third: "Beedell" first: "Roke" Avatar
        third: “Beedell” first: “Roke”

        How?

        Like

      2. itskai Avatar
        itskai

        This entire “apology” is making Beeper out to be some victim when the whole reason they got into this mess was because they not only reverse engineered imessage they charged for it lmao.

        This has never been for the people. This has been a quick cash grab for them to take advantage of your desperation. Like how insulting is it, a month later, to be told to get an iPhonelmao. And you still have the nerve to blame apple for protecting their property and hoping that government forces Apple to give you their property lol

        Like

      3. Harley G Avatar
        Harley G

        Agree.

        Like

      4. third: "Beedell" first: "Roke" Avatar
        third: “Beedell” first: “Roke”

        It’s fundamentally obvious that a company reverse engineering proprietary software indefinitely is unable to provide any guarantee of indefinite and unobstructed operation. If you merely assumed otherwise, I see no reason to criticise them for this. Did they purport otherwise?

        Like

      5. Dikamsi Young Avatar
        Dikamsi Young

        Spoken like a true brainwashed Apple Fanboi* 🤝

        Like

  4. Todd Radel Avatar
    Todd Radel

    I really don’t understand the behavior from companies like Apple and MyQ that do their best to prevent any interoperability. Open ecosystems around a product serve to draw more customers and create more opportunity for everyone. Apple’s claims are BS and they know it.

    Like

    1. itskai Avatar
      itskai

      Apple is not an open source ecosystem. I am not sure why you or anyone is shocked.

      Like

      1. third: "Beedell" first: "Roke" Avatar
        third: “Beedell” first: “Roke”

        Because it’s fundamentally nonsensical.

        Like

      2. Norman Framed Avatar
        Norman Framed

        And neither is Google/Android completely open either. Ask Linux phone users about trying to send encrypted RCS messages to Android users. The encryption part is closed source/proprietary to Android.

        Like

      3. pimpelipom Avatar
        pimpelipom

        Or any RCS messages at all. For some reason, there are no open source RCS clients. Presumably one could use a standard RCS client to connect to Jibe servers. Some people claim it is impossible, but refuse to elaborate.

        Like

      4. Todd Radel Avatar
        Todd Radel

        Nowhere did I say “open source”. I said “open ecosystem”. That can be achieved in any number of ways without open-sourcing iMessage.

        Like

      5. itskai Avatar
        itskai

        you are literally getting RCS next year. Android fans should rejoice because most IOS users dont care.

        Like

      6. Todd Radel Avatar
        Todd Radel

        We *may* be getting RCS next year, assuming Apple follows through after steadfastly maintaining a walled garden for a decade.

        Like

      7. Norman Framed Avatar
        Norman Framed

        And Google opens up the encryption part of RCS which they invested in via the Jibe server technology which I’m sure they’re hoping to license to cellular service providers.

        Like

      8. Dikamsi Young Avatar
        Dikamsi Young

        Well your willful ignorance is made rather blatant if you read the entire post and still typed this comment.

        SMS fallback which is done when you communicate with someone outside iMessage (which you don’t know until you open their chat) is unencrypted. If RCS is not supported sooner or some other means of safely communicating with non-Apple users is not created, iOS remains more unsecure than Apple has brainwashed you to think.

        Like

      9. Dikamsi Young Avatar
        Dikamsi Young

        Also, typical Apple fanboi* behaviour to see things from a iOS vs Android perspective.

        Many people don’t really give two sh*ts about which platform they use, just ensure there is usable, stable and secure interoperability between the platforms. I use an iPad & MacBook Pro but would rather have an Android device. As an iOS equivalent user, should I also be punished because of my choice to prefer an Android device?

        Why should I send images to people and have them look like something from the 80’s all because some Chef with an oversized ego would rather we buy an overrated device with little to no value in the grand scheme of things or wait till whenever they feel like making life easier for their users? Why should I have to worry about whether others use a third-party social media platform to help transfer those images when both OS manufacturers have highly capable messaging platform?

        Like

    2. third: "Beedell" first: "Roke" Avatar
      third: “Beedell” first: “Roke”

      Many people disagree. It’s merely a matter of opinion. Eventually, through legislation and projects such as Beeper’s, however, you shall be proven correct.

      Like

    3. Norman Framed Avatar
      Norman Framed

      Why should Apple pay for the R&D costs for everyone else? iMessage is a technology they paid to develop and uses their cloud servers (which cost money to run). It is interoperable with the SMS standard, which is the only thing guaranteed to be on every phone. Google is pushing for RCS, which is great, except that the encryption part of it (used by the Android Messages app) is their own, proprietary technology: https://docs.jibemobile.com

      Like

      1. Todd Radel Avatar
        Todd Radel

        All they have to do is publish an open standard or an API and let people adopt it. It’s just documenting what they’ve already done, not “paying for everyone else’s R&D costs”.

        Like

      2. Norman Framed Avatar
        Norman Framed

        Ah yes, the “open everything” advocates. I thought the same way when I was in academia and didn’t understand business models. Once you understand Apple’s business model (selling products based on the R&D investments they make) compared to Google’s business model (creating products to gather data/build profiles about people so that they can charge top dollar for advertising placement), you can understand why they don’t just open everything up and eliminate any competitive advantages their R&D investments gave them. This is where you need to understand technology in the context of Capitalism and see why one business model actually pays technology creators what their worth and the other just uses them as a vehicle for other industries (advertising) to make money from their labour.

        Like

      3. Todd Radel Avatar
        Todd Radel

        I’m not sure why you assume I’m in academia or ignorant of the business world.

        I’ve worked in the software industry for 20 years. In that time, I’ve built successful ecosystems around both open-source (HashiCorp) and closed-source (AppDynamics and others) products. Somehow those companies became billion-dollar enterprises without the benefit of your insight.

        It appears you know as much about the software business as you do about proper spelling and grammar.

        Like

      4. Norman Framed Avatar
        Norman Framed

        Ah yes, the completely irrelevant “grammar” argument. I hope the software you write doesn’t contain the same kind of superfluous syntactic sugar since language itself is an imperfect means of communication where one can easily go down the “language lawyer” rabbit hole based on different rules at different points in human history.

        I too have worked in the industry for a long time, and have worked on both open and closed software at different points where it made sense to do so. The thing which really made me wake up to the fact that “open” often meant “exploitation” was watching products built on cloned technology (like Google did with Java) undercut products which were genuinely innovative. I realized that this method of doing business wasn’t being punished as it was when I first started my career. In fact, it was the exact opposite: it was being rewarded because competitive products could be built much cheaper that way. I actually had a product which another company cloned and repackaged and it essentially put an end to a startup I was involved in due to the fact that I couldn’t fight it in court.

        Like

      5. Mercury Avatar
        Mercury

        What a moron who thinks opening API doesn’t imply paying for everyone else’s R&D. Designing API, designing the server infrastructure, implementing the logic, etc. all that was free, wasn’t it?

        Like

      6. Todd Radel Avatar
        Todd Radel

        They already ate that cost for themselves. Sharing it now with oils cost them little additional.

        Also, the personal attacks are unnecessary.

        Like

      7. lipman Avatar
        lipman

        it’s up to them whether they want to share or not. they are not obligated to share

        Like

      8. Todd Radel Avatar
        Todd Radel

        I never said they were obligated. I said it would benefit them to create an entire ecosystem around iMessage by publishing it as a standard.

        Like

      9. lipman Avatar
        lipman

        iMessage created as a complement to iOS/OSX device. Keeping it behind their walled garden provides bigger advantage compared to pushing it as an open standard. Apple’s highest priority is pushing their iOS/OSX products, not rolling out industry standard messaging platform. i doubt they will do that…at least anytime soon

        Like

      10. colinnwn Avatar
        colinnwn

        Apple fully amortized the R&D costs for iMessage long ago. Now they just have the maintenance cost. But I highly suspect the SMS bridge and the content conversion costs them more resources than allowing other apps to connect to iMessage and it would make sense for them to develop an authorized vetting process.

        When a company ends up with significant market power especially for communication and other essential services, their responsibilities in the law and to society increase.

        Google had to develop an encryption standard for RCS because there currently isn’t one. It was not their preference, whereas keeping others out of secure iMessage access is Apple’s preference.

        Like

      11. Norman Framed Avatar
        Norman Framed

        So if someone has fully paid for their house, should they be forced to let others use it? Apple paid for the creation of the technology, so it’s still entirely their choice who gets to use it.

        As for the point about responsibilities to society, I agree. But that kind of change needs to happen via an entity which is acting in the public interest (government), not via other companies who, ultimately, are looking to make money from using it.

        As for Google, their business model is very different from Apple’s. For them, technology is simply a vehicle to make money from their real business, advertising. Not from technology as a product in itself. So the more people who use their technology in their products, the more data they are able to harvest for their advertising business. As such, they’re very happy giving it away to those who comply with their terms of use (eg. GMS certification, which ensures they can continue to harvest data).

        Like

      12. colinnwn Avatar
        colinnwn

        Apple did not build a private house. They built a public communication gathering place, initially for their customers.

        When a public place remains small and niche it does not get a lot of notice from others and regulators, and it has minimal impact on society.

        Apple has been fortunate enough to become massively successful, and their communication hub has a large impact on society, including on people who have chosen not to be on their larger ecosystem for many different reasons.

        If Apple only allowed people to contact other iMessage users and it did not work with SMS, you had to use a separate app on iPhone to contact SMS users, they would have a better ideological leg to stand on.

        Like

      13. Norman Framed Avatar
        Norman Framed

        They built a private rich messaging platform for their customers which has a bridge to the public gathering place (SMS).

        And here’s the core of it, independent of ideology: people can communicate just fine via SMS today. All of the circus performances by the tech enthusiasts seem to miss that point. And that’s the core human need here: to communicate with each other.

        It’s not encrypted, but then neither are regular voice calls, and yet no one is getting worked up about that because it’s not something which can be used to slander Apple and be used as a marketing strategy/generate media attention.

        Again, if all these companies pretending to have public interest at heart want to put their money where their mouth is, they’d work together to get existing tech and standards mandated by the government instead of the misdirection they’re creating to generate interest from investors.

        Like

  5. itskai Avatar
    itskai

    I honestly have been getting a kick out of this desperate and pathetic attempt BUT i will at least give your other legit products a try. This was never about bringing android and iPhone users together but for you guys to make a quick grab off Android user desperation ❤

    Like

    1. Meredith Avatar
      Meredith

      What are you even talking about?

      Like

      1. third: "Beedell" first: "Roke" Avatar
        third: “Beedell” first: “Roke”

        What the user stated was coherent to me. What confuses you?

        Like

      2. itskai Avatar
        itskai

        Reading is not your strong suit i see.

        Like

    2. third: "Beedell" first: "Roke" Avatar
      third: “Beedell” first: “Roke”

      I doubt that that is the case.

      Like

    3. TryAgain Avatar
      TryAgain

      Yeah, Android users are just so desperate to be able to talk to their friends and family using some type of universally accepted standard. They should all just go buy iPhones!! /s

      Like

      1. itskai Avatar
        itskai

        I mean I am able to talk to my Android fans just fine via text with no problem.

        Like

    4. Michael Avatar
      Michael

      I hate feeding the trolls, but I HAVE an iPhone, yet I much much much prefer messaging on desktop. I’m locked into Windows OS for work, and iPhoneLink or whatever halfbaked program the OS has is completely unusable.

      So no, I’m not even an Android user – I’m an Apple customer.

      Like

      1. itskai Avatar
        itskai

        I have no problems using the phonelink program on my Surface pro.

        Like

      2. Michael Avatar
        Michael

        The PhoneLink experience is abjectly terrible – drops messages, doesn’t sync between the two apps, no group messaging, replies are wonked, setup process fails frequently, often requires reset…

        ‘No problems’ means you’re not using it. Go lie to someone else.

        Like

      3. itskai Avatar
        itskai

        I use it when I use my surface and it really is not an issue for me. Sorry you have trouble utilizing simple hardware.

        Like

      4. Michael Avatar
        Michael

        I don’t have trouble operating- it lacks basic features and stability. Sorry you can’t read.

        There’s a dozen people on your side in here making good arguments – you’re just trolling.

        Like

      5. Jessica Schneck Avatar
        Jessica Schneck

        I’m wondering if it’s not a combo of the corporate overlord and Microsoft….the Microsoft My Phone app worked on Windows 10 with my Android phone for a bit, but then it seemed to suddenly stop working. Not sure who is to blame (our company cracking down or Microsoft abandoning), but Beeper solves a lot of the problems.

        Like

  6. kallosz Avatar
    kallosz

    Apple is not “the largest company on earth”, i thing Google is larger

    Like

    1. Billy Avatar
      Billy

      Market cap disagrees with you unfortunately

      Like

      1. third: "Beedell" first: "Roke" Avatar
        third: “Beedell” first: “Roke”

        Depends upon evaluation fundamentally, but you’re generally correct.

        Like

    2. TQ White II Avatar
      TQ White II

      Who cares?

      Like

  7. Meredith Avatar
    Meredith

    If Apple blocks Beeper permanently, will you continue developing the app? I’m not using the iMessage bridge at all but I do use many other bridges, I enjoy having my chats all in one place. I would definitely donate!

    Like

  8. Bryce Ebeling Avatar
    Bryce Ebeling

    for the record, I’m willing to pay for beeper cloud, if you make that an option.

    The only network that isn’t available that would make my life MUCH easier is if you also supported Google Voice. Having those messages available to me within Beeper would make me that much more productive.

    Like

    1. third: "Beedell" first: "Roke" Avatar
      third: “Beedell” first: “Roke”

      I’d also love Google Voice.

      Like

    2. Kris Kratz Avatar
      Kris Kratz

      I’m also for Google Voice! What’s another battle over ToS?! Two front war!

      Like

  9. Seb Avatar
    Seb

    I’ve stopped using beeper after a year of joy with this. This fight was completely unnecessary and it immediately made me lose trust in you as a company. What an incredible waste of money, time and goodwill. RIP beeper.

    Like

  10. Anon Avatar
    Anon

    This is truly great, don’t get me wrong, but no matter how much you post “we are never giving up”, you will ultimately lose this game. Unfortunately. And to say you’ll “believe it when you see it” in referencing Apple’s RCS claim, I believe it’s truly coming next year. Bc of EU laws etc. ultimately Beeper loses in every scenario.

    Like

  11. John Avatar
    John

    I think your U-turn for the new year is the smart thing to do. Most Beeper users were here for an app that would make all the 20 other ones obsolete in everyday life. So much to build, like voice notes on the mobile apps, should be the priority moving forward for sure

    Like

    1. Joey Padgett Avatar
      Joey Padgett

      100% agree. The value is in integrating as many other apps as possible. Don’t let 1 make or break! Plus, it’s an easier convo w/ Apple when you’re bigger, more integrated, and have an army of users to advocate for you

      Like

  12. Bill Moseley Avatar
    Bill Moseley

    This is so disingenuous. Running servers isn’t free and nobody’s entitled to use somebody else’s servers. While we can disagree with Apple’s iMessage strategy, and I do, that doesn’t mean they should allow anybody who comes up with a clever hack onto their systems. Be clear about what you’re doing. You’re connecting to somebody else’s servers to use their service through fraudulent credentials. While I don’t think you’re doing anything nefarious with user data or anything, Apple doesn’t know that, and even if you were super open and sharing your code, it would still be a cost to them to go review it, and also allowing your app as it works now, opens the floodgates to anybody to exploit their system. That would be a security nightmare. Anyway, this whole enterprise is doomed to fail. Apple will continue to work to lock you out- as they should for very legitimate security reasons – and if you end up I. Court, you’ll lose that too. Posts like this are just a desperate attempt to get public perception on your side because you have nothing else to fall back on. If I have a store, that doesn’t give you the right to set up your own store inside mine. No difference here. That said, I’ve been happy to use Beeper on my Samsung tablet to get my iMessages since I don’t have an Android phone.

    Like

  13. itskai Avatar
    itskai

    as a LEGIT IOS user, you hacking into iMessage with beeper actually makes my experience worse. All the IOS specific features that my phone can do (Apple Pay, share location, share ETA, share contact details, share apple music links, etc etc) are not going to be compatiable. So now i think I am talking to an iPhone user and i try to do something only for me to realize i can’t.
    Let’s say I sent $400 bucks on Apple pay thinking you had apple pay. Hopefully it would fail but what if it doesn;t? Then that $400 is somewhere in limbo.

    Like

  14. just nope Avatar
    just nope

    eh, stupid questions, but shouldn’t the new EU DSA be specifically designed for situations like this?

    Like

  15. Phillip Avatar
    Phillip

    Thank you all for all of your work. It’s brave to see someone tackle this complex issue and go to toe-to-toe with a trillion dollar company, particularly for the greater benefit of consumers everywhere. I’m sad to see the fight ending, but I’m glad you all got the ball rolling. Here’s hoping this is just the beginning of the end 🤞

    Like

  16. Jason C Avatar
    Jason C

    This openly shows that Apple doesn’t give a damn about people’s privacy and only cares about money. Point blank period. They offer no evidence, just general statements like any other money hungry political company. Thank you for keeping the fight up for our privacy and your company but you’re right, you’ll be bankrupt before they even feel a dent. We are behind you regardless

    Like

    1. itskai Avatar
      itskai

      they do care hence why we have iMessage and you dont.

      Like

    2. Norman Framed Avatar
      Norman Framed

      At least be consistent in your fight: Google’s encryption add-on to RCS isn’t open either, meaning people who use Linux-based phones have the same problem when sending messages to Android. Why only fight Apple when Google is doing the same thing?

      Like

  17. Es Avatar
    Es

    I commend you on your efforts! It’s step in the right direction, bringing attention to the much bigger messaging saga that involves all the major messaging platforms, telecoms and OEMs

    Like

  18. ymstnt Avatar
    ymstnt

    Please, just stop this pointless fight. I get why you want to do it, you want to make a statement, but no matter what you try, they will lock you out.
    Please, just focus on what Beeper promised to be: bridging chat platforms into a single app. That is a legitimately useful concept and that’s why a lot of people got into Beeper in the first place (including me).

    Like

  19. Kunal Avatar
    Kunal

    It’s disappointing to see Apple, a company that touts privacy and security, take a stance against this. Kudos to Eric and his team for their community-focused response by open-sourcing the project.

    Like

    1. Norman Framed Avatar
      Norman Framed

      It’s disappointing for people who claim to understand the technology industry not seeing through the mirage. Apple’s encryption technology works fine on their devices, the same way Google’s encryption technology (add-on to RCS) works fine on theirs. Neither of them works with other phones like Linux-based ones. Why fight against Apple when Google is doing the same thing? If you want any for-profit company’s technology to become a universal standard, then you need to offer them financial incentive to open it up. All of the open standards in technology either came from government funding via military or academia (e.g. the internet, TCP/IP, DNS, etc), or came from consortiums of companies for whom it was mutually beneficial (e.g. Intel giving away USB so that it would become a standard via which they could licence their controller chip technology).

      Like

  20. Chris Bauer Avatar
    Chris Bauer

    Worse than Apple are all the weirdos who think using Apple products makes them better than others. The ones who cheer for Apple to put up walls between friends because they think exclusive access to something they paid for makes it cool. Apple users should want open communication, not status symbols.

    Like

    1. TQ White II Avatar
      TQ White II

      We *have* open communication. We just do. It’s silly to say otherwise. I don’t know anything about a phone making someone better, but it’s fine to take pride in your stuff and to feel cool about it. I would bet infinite bucks that you do, too. Cool car? Hot girl/boyfriend?

      Like

  21. Alexei Chemenda Avatar
    Alexei Chemenda

    Why don’t you remove the AndroidiOS bridge and focus on iOS users for Beep? The value of Beep on our team is not Android iOS connection, it’s to have all of the chats in one place (slack, linkedin, whatsapp, messenger etc). Why fight so hard with Apple for that feature?

    Like

  22. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    There is nothing of substance here.

    1. Open sourcing the “core bridge” and claiming that addresses the concerns with the app as a whole is disingenuous. This is self-explanatory.

    2. You are using fake credentials. You address that claim by explaining why you think you should, but you’re still using fake credentials.

    3. Had you been successful, you would have opened a proprietary messaging network, where people expect to communicate with a specific device, to any device. While that is your stated mission, it does open up users of the proprietary messaging network to more messages, and thus more spam. This is a stupid argument by Apple, but your refutation again misses the point.

    4. By virtue of the fact that Apple did, in the short term, commit to supporting RCS, It’s blatant that this was an attempt at a quick cash grab; riding off of the news involving Sunbird.

    5. This one is important. You don’t get to legislate who gets to hold on to their intellectual property and who is forced to share it with others. You create this straw man, where you paint apple as the monopoly they are, and then lump everyone opposed to your initiative in their camp.
    Lobby your lawmakers, whatever. But so long as there is no legislation that mandates Apple to open up their proprietary platform to you, you don’t have the right to their platform.

    6. Your plan was to make money off of Mini. Long-term, as a standalone app, it made no sense. It was also a slap in the face to your loyal users who are waiting for you to bridge the feature parity bridge for your other chat networks. But you saw a way to make a quick buck from the sunbird saga. You also plan to charge for Beeper Cloud.

    Shame on you guys for following dollar signs at the expense of what’s really important to your users. Frankly, your app has become buggy, inconsistent between platforms, and horrible on feature-parity. I’m really disappointed that you got into all this knowing that, even if you were successful in this short-term effort, this would all be irrelevant in a few months.

    Like

    1. Dikamsi Young Avatar
      Dikamsi Young

      Love the structure, and really sad that Beeper decided to cash out on the whole thing.

      As to your 5th point, I am grateful for bills like S.3988 – Communications Security, Reliability, and Interoperability Council Act. There is a reason why standards exist. SMS is core part of their US users lives and not adhering to encryption standards while withholding your intellectual property all for financial gain should be worthy of double penalty.

      Like

  23. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Apple doesn’t want RCS simply because they have the apple sheep believing that Androids are inferior devices. Three truth is RCS works wonderful and is secure. They don’t adopt RCS because they’ve rather push this “Android is inferior” narrative when the truth is Apple is the one using and old outdated protocol in SMS to keep the Android narrative alive. Its a lie and the apple faithfuls follow it not knowing the actual truth of the matter.

    “Buy your Mom an iPhone” (Tim Cook)

    Like

  24. Michael Avatar
    Michael

    Apple doesn’t want RCS simply because they have the apple sheep believing that Androids are inferior devices. Three truth is RCS works wonderful and is secure. They don’t adopt RCS because they’ve rather push this “Android is inferior” narrative when the truth is Apple is the one using and old outdated protocol in SMS to keep the Android narrative alive. Its a lie and the apple faithfuls follow it not knowing the actual truth of the matter.

    “Buy your Mom an iPhone” (Tim Cook

    Like

  25. TQ White II Avatar
    TQ White II

    I don’t know that I think Apple does not suck but I do have some concern about the meaning of the blue bubble. Your controversy is new to me but I think the blue bubble means that my messages are staying within the Apple ecosystem. I am not entirely sure that I want that to change or that Apple is completely wrong for enforcing that. I reiterate, I’m not sure what I think but, that’s one thing in my mind.

    Like

  26. Shell M. Shrader Avatar
    Shell M. Shrader

    thank you so much beeper for getting us this far. The mac-registration-provider is a very fitting work-around for me as I am that MacOS power user / android smartphone use case. I wish your startup the best of luck wherever it is you’re headed.

    Your time with us blue bubble wannabes is greatly appreciated!

    Like

  27. Larry Loe Avatar
    Larry Loe

    This is really unfortunate. I am about to just refuse to use any service from apple. It’s just insult upon injury with them. A recent injury I have been experiencing is the inability of parental controls to monitor half the stuff going on in iphones and Apple’s insistence upon not doing anything about it. That combined with the fact that androids are “cheap dorky” phones and that families want to all comunicate together with imessage adds a further hinderance for parents to get an android phone that can be monitored better.

    Like

  28. Damon Avatar
    Damon

    Eric and team, thank you so much for creating such an amazing product. More than just using iMessage from Android I have thoroughly enjoyed what felt like unified messaging. One app to rule them all. It’s been a great experience having a single inbox for all my messaging needs. As for Apple nonsense I do not care what Apple says or does they are in the wrong on this one they and their users know it. Many of my blue bubble friends are as disappointed in this as us green bubbles. I will be dusting off an old macbook to keep the dream alive. Thanks for all you have done!

    Like

  29. Harley G Avatar
    Harley G

    Buh-bye. I’d be more sympathetic if Beeper was about anything other than cashing in on blue bubble envy.

    Like

  30. Shanmukha Avatar
    Shanmukha

    The last “you’re making money out of apple’s servers” is such a stupid argument to make, we are paying to support you guys to keep developing solutions, as a token of gift not because we HAVE TO.

    Like

  31. Mercury Avatar
    Mercury

    How is the communication between two android devices happening? Is it not using apple’s server without having a “paying customer”?

    Like

    1. Thomas Avatar
      Thomas

      Very good point, didn’t think of that! I guess at least they said they’d pay Apple a few dollars for cloud IO if they could. Basically pennies in the grand scheme of things though. Though I highly doubt that Android users are using this to talk to each other, given all the other options out there that don’t involve reverse engineering. Speaking as a proud Mac and Android user myself.

      Like

  32. Thomas Avatar
    Thomas

    Lots of love and support from here!! I know Apple talks tough, but this is a fight you guys could *win*

    Like

  33. Jonathan Schwarz Avatar
    Jonathan Schwarz

    Like

  34. Conrad Buck Avatar
    Conrad Buck

    Like

  35. Jeremiah Avatar
    Jeremiah

    I appreciate this a lot. So many people (Apple shills) are claiming ridiculous things and it’s nice to see a calm, collected response to these claims. I can’t wait to try out Beeper Cloud!

    Like

  36. nakutende Avatar
    nakutende

    I hope that we can find a way to make this trustworthy for everyone by releasing this as OpenSource project and convince enough people to pay for the continued development of this great application.
    Maybe you can even secure funding from companies and states for opensource.

    Anyhow, i am hoping for a replacement to many common forms of communication and self-expression on the internet of today.

    We have a large variety from rather private (whatsapp, Signal, , RCS,) communication networks over Email , Discord , Matrix channels that are a more closed group and completely public like the Fediverse and Twitter,Threads and BSky.

    I therefore propose the additional services as follows:
    ActivityPub(used in Mastodon)
    SMTP/IMAP,MS-Graph,EAW,OWA,JMAP&JCAL, PGP&SMIME as used for Email to securely communicate with companies, friends, collegues and goverment authorities.
    ActivityPub to connect to the Fediverse and Mastodon Instances

    E-Mail is still an importan way to communicate and i think it should be part of Beeper.
    In Additional to the standards IMAP;SMTP&ICAL, we could force open the more closed protocols of Google and MS to communicate with Corporate Exchange Servers that disabled SMTP&IMAP via the MS own protocols graph,eaw, owa and others. Same goes for Contact Management and Calendars which do not really work with ICALand VCAL that good.
    To finish this we should make it a TrustOnFirst Use policy with good backups and implement SMIME&PGP as well as upcoming ietf standards to protect metadata.
    DeltaChat could be implemented on top to have an easy to use messenger that runs independently of major networks.

    Twitter, just because some journalists and activitsts are still there and Elon Musk is as closed as IMessage just in spite.
    Matrix&ElementCall, as it is a good place to communicate for various Projects and Communities and could get rid of a more closed system like Discord
    Telegram, it is in a lot of countries an important source of information , especially for minorities and victims of war. Would be an opportunity to switch the default to encrypted communication here.
    Discord, although centralised and run by a company this is known for ease of use for many gamers and communities and can’t yet be replaced by Matrix.

    Signal&Whatsapp, the real Contenders to IMessage in many countries that allow to send high resolution images and have conversations with many people while not paying for SMS.
    Unlike RCS they are encrypted by default.

    MS-Teams, Slack, BigBlueButton, Jitsi.
    For live-events and presentations as well as working in groups, companies included it would be beneficial but probably lots of work to get an open source client for these workgroup and video conference tools.

    All this needs lots of money and research and using the EU interoperability laws DMA&DSA but we can do it.
    Maybe you should have a poll/discussion with the users what they would like to see next and prioritise accordingly?

    Like

  37. hailun Avatar
    hailun

    Recommended code

    Like

  38. Carlos Avatar
    Carlos

    Does anyone, want to privately share a registration code?
    Unfortunately I have a 2010 Macbook Pro that only goes to 10.13.6 so I cannot run the Beeper program.

    Like

  39. Rhandhy Rosario Avatar
    Rhandhy Rosario

    anyone with a code im the only person in my family with android phone all the group chat with iPhone is terrible. I can pay for the code ?

    Like

  40. Jerry Silver Avatar
    Jerry Silver

    I’m not seeing Beeper Mini on Google Play (Canada). Is it no longer available? I’ve signed up for the Beeper Cloud wait list.

    Like

  41. Logan Avatar
    Logan

    Great response. Thank you for sharing at the level of detail you did. Personally, I completely agree with you claims and think Apple is hurting their users by not opening the platform. I didn’t realize how big of an issue it is until I switched to an Android phone, but kept my Mac. I immediately got removed from chats and even after following Apple’s directions on turning off iMessage, they are still not delivering some messages to me via SMS. So frustrating, and the worst is that iPhone users believe this is an Android user’s problem, when the problem is clearly Apple.

    Like

  42. Alex VQC Avatar
    Alex VQC

    Thanks for all your incredible work. You are the only reliable solution to remove all scrollings apps from smartphones and only keep human friendly features (chatting actually). We all are behind you !

    Like

  43. LaVere Soper Avatar
    LaVere Soper

    I am trying to sign up to paid account of beeper mini – but cant seem to find where.
    I have iMac computer and iPhone 11, and live in UK – can anyone please direct me where and How to sign up.

    Like

  44. J Hamby Avatar
    J Hamby

    Let’s face it, Apple has become a luxury brand and a status symbol for people to brag about and that blue bubble carries with it an unsaid understanding that Apple has worked extremely hard to create and maintain and this software not only works to undermine that, but it creates a situation where folks are able to be a part of the ecosystem without paying the absurdly high customary “Apple Tax”. It’s no wonder Apple is so butt hurt about it!

    Like

Leave a comment